So, sorry for bad writing, it's explained all below:): PYTHOOON!:) Nothing about python in your head? Than visit: python.org What about portingevery work of our beloved Ken to python? Comment. Voxelstein online! Yeah, MMO voxelstein port! I think it'd be great, just think about it. And yeah, why not call it Voxelstein: Return To The Voxlap Territory. And at last, I WILL help you when you'll do that. HIGH VOXEL MODELS! YEEEeEeEAAaaAAAHH! Just imagine, great, now you know what to do next 1000 days, pick up all crysis models and port it to vox...lap:) Danyyy! Yeah, I am introducing myself this wwaaay: Experience: 4 years GM experience, own contact to M Overmars I hate GM now I hate it f****** much I read the rules total of 2,5 years of experience with Python 1 year PyGlet Learning OpenGL and DirectX and VoxelX I am totally new to voxlap, and I just, it's AMAZING espescially when I think about it's realism. And, I don't like Borland, no, I don't hate it, but in it's something too complex:( PHOTOREALIZZMMES! No, I am not an idiot, I am 139 IQ, I live in central europe, so, let me write something what's f****** amzing over it. Pick up some HD photos and convert em all to KV6, and what do you get? 99.9% realism! an this is it, my first voxlap project: PhotoRealizzm engine, for my old game: Soldiers War ran by GM-Delphi D3D:( P.S.:Will be updated
Edited by Dany at
ConsistentCallsign at
Re: Python, voxelstein online(enemy voxritory), High voxel models and many more
Dany said at
PHOTOREALIZZMMES!
Photorealistic voxel games take too much memory (converaty al crysys mdlz and uplaod 12482395 terabyet gaem q2 megaloupload) You have to be realistic, until the memory bandwidth bottleneck problem has been solved, high-resolution voxel games do not have a future :'(
:D
esuvs at
Well, it was a little hard to chew though your post, but basically you are planning to:
1) Port VoxLap to Python - This is not impossible, but I would question the value of doing so. It will certainly be slower, and I'm not sure what benefit you would expect to get. 2) Write a MMO using the resulting engine - I would have grave doubts about this given the limited size of VoxLap maps. 3) Covert Crysis models to VoxLap - Well this is possible though you couldn't legally use them in any game. 4) Convert photos to voxel maps - While there is some research on reconstructing 3D environments from 2D photos it is very difficult. Also, you would only get a surface representation whereas part of the joy of voxels is blasting though object to see what is behind or inside.
But, well, good luck!
Dany at
esuvs said at
Well, it was a little hard to chew though your post, but basically you are planning to:
1) Port VoxLap to Python - This is not impossible, but I would question the value of doing so. It will certainly be slower, and I'm not sure what benefit you would expect to get. 2) Write a MMO using the resulting engine - I would have grave doubts about this given the limited size of VoxLap maps. 3) Convert Crysis models to VoxLap - Well this is possible though you couldn't legally use them in any game. 4) Convert photos to voxel maps - While there is some research on reconstructing 3D environments from 2D photos it is very difficult. Also, you would only get a surface representation whereas part of the joy of voxels is blasting though object to see what is behind or inside.
But, well, good luck!
THX, I can't write in english as I excepted, so you could have problems to read my text, doesn't matter, this is MY response to YOUR respone to MY post. 1) You maybe don't know something about Python: it's written in C#, but it's faster than C#, I thought that you know about Python much, as I see, not. Let me explain. Python can perfectly communicate with C# files, just make the Voxlap as an command and module to python, in association of PyGlet there is also a possiblity to make OpenGL effects too. Python games are faster than even C++ games, and they need only a bit of RAM capacity, like 120MB(3D), 230MB(Poxel), 58MB(Voxel) and 2/3MB(2D), tested on my old computers;)(REALLY, NO JOKE, IT TOOK ME 4 HOURS AND 4 MINUTES!!!). 2) This makes no problem, because this would be arenas, but I think,cuzz my personal best was just help on writing Online fighting game called "Tee Worlds" it's easy(in Python). 3) I thought that they'll give permission, I thought that it'd be just a public technical test of VoxLap's maximal possiblities:). 4) I've got already tons 360o pictures of one scenery in tatras (slovakia) , in HD (1,9 Megapixel- 1600X1200) and already converting into Poly by a technic, how's it called, hmm... but it's still hard, meant really, I need to textrue every prepared voxel and pixel and poly at once! I made some scripts for 3ds max to help me, but still, not easy.
PHOTOREALIZZMMES! Photorealistic voxel games take too much memory (converaty al crysys mdlz and uplaod 12482395 terabyet gaem q2 megaloupload) You have to be realistic, until the memory bandwidth bottleneck problem has been solved, high-resolution voxel games do not have a future :Cry:
I've done some tries, it seems that the alghoritm has "bad" rate of Calc:Memory, I'll just try to make VoxLap using more Calc sentences, just try, it seems to help somewhere...
esuvs at
Dany said at
THX, I can't write in english as I excepted, so you could have problems to read my text, doesn't matter, this is MY response to YOUR respone to MY post.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude. Your english is great, but in your first post you just seemed a little... excited :)
Dany said at
1) You maybe don't know something about Python: it's written in C#, but it's faster than C#, I thought that you know about Python much, as I see, not. Let me explain. Python can perfectly communicate with C# files, just make the Voxlap as an command and module to python, in association of PyGlet there is also a possiblity to make OpenGL effects too. Python games are faster than even C++ games, and they need only a bit of RAM capacity, like 120MB(3D), 230MB(Poxel), 58MB(Voxel) and 2/3MB(2D), tested on my old computers;)(REALLY, NO JOKE, IT TOOK ME 4 HOURS AND 4 MINUTES!!!).
Well this is definitely not true - Python is actually written in C (or possibly C++?). In most cases it will be slower than C/C++ and I would expect it to be roughly equal to C#. There is also a version of Python called 'IronPython' which is designed for the .NET environment - maybe this is where you get confused with C#?
VoxLap is probably written mostly in C, and you are correct that in general it is possible to connect Python code to C/C++ code. However, this functionality is for connecting Python to a library (.dll) where as VoxLap is an application (.exe). It is probably possible to extract some of the core components of VoxLap into library, but this will be hard work.
Dany said at
2) This makes no problem, because this would be arenas, but I think,cuzz my personal best was just help on writing Online fighting game called "Tee Worlds" it's easy(in Python).
This could work, but I suspect that VoxLap maps are too small even to be used as arenas. You will have to try some and see - and also consider loading times, etc. Also, as you move from into a new arena you would need to store the state of the old arena in case they go back to it. This is probably not impossible, but again you can expect a lot of work.
Dany said at
3) I thought that they'll give permission, I thought that it'd be just a public technical test of VoxLap's maximal possiblities:).
I don't think you'll get permission to use the Crysis models, but if you look around the internet there are other free models available which you could use. And I believe Ken already has some tools for converting meshes into voxels.
Dany said at
4) I've got already tons 360o pictures of one scenery in tatras (slovakia) , in HD (1,9 Megapixel- 1600X1200) and already converting into Poly by a technic, how's it called, hmm... but it's still hard, meant really, I need to texture every prepared voxel and pixel and poly at once! I made some scripts for 3ds max to help me, but still, not easy.
But don't forget that photos only give you the surface of an object - for a voxel world you also need the inside. For example, voxels to represent the inside of a wall, or underground.
Edited by esuvs at
Dany at
esuvs said at
Dany said at
THX, I can't write in english as I excepted, so you could have problems to read my text, doesn't matter, this is MY response to YOUR respone to MY post.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude. Your english is great, but in your first post you just seemed a little... excited :)
Dany said at
1) You maybe don't know something about Python: it's written in C#, but it's faster than C#, I thought that you know about Python much, as I see, not. Let me explain. Python can perfectly communicate with C# files, just make the Voxlap as an command and module to python, in association of PyGlet there is also a possiblity to make OpenGL effects too. Python games are faster than even C++ games, and they need only a bit of RAM capacity, like 120MB(3D), 230MB(Poxel), 58MB(Voxel) and 2/3MB(2D), tested on my old computers;)(REALLY, NO JOKE, IT TOOK ME 4 HOURS AND 4 MINUTES!!!).
Well this is definitely not true - Python is actually written in C (or possibly C++?). In most cases it will be slower than C/C++ and I would expect it to be roughly equal to C#. There is also a version of Python called 'IronPython' which is designed for the .NET environment - maybe this is where you get confused with C#?
VoxLap is probably written mostly in C, and you are correct that in general it is possible to connect Python code to C/C++ code. However, this functionality is for connecting Python to a library (.dll) where as VoxLap is an application (.exe). It is probably possible to extract some of the core components of VoxLap into library, but this will be hard work.
Dany said at
2) This makes no problem, because this would be arenas, but I think,cuzz my personal best was just help on writing Online fighting game called "Tee Worlds" it's easy(in Python).
This could work, but I suspect that VoxLap maps are too small even to be used as arenas. You will have to try some and see - and also consider loading times, etc. Also, as you move from into a new arena you would need to store the state of the old arena in case they go back to it. This is probably not impossible, but again you can expect a lot of work.
Dany said at
3) I thought that they'll give permission, I thought that it'd be just a public technical test of VoxLap's maximal possiblities:).
I don't think you'll get permission to use the Crysis models, but if you look around the internet there are other free models available which you could use. And I believe Ken already has some tools for converting meshes into voxels.
Dany said at
4) I've got already tons 360o pictures of one scenery in tatras (slovakia) , in HD (1,9 Megapixel- 1600X1200) and already converting into Poly by a technic, how's it called, hmm... but it's still hard, meant really, I need to texture every prepared voxel and pixel and poly at once! I made some scripts for 3ds max to help me, but still, not easy.
But don't forget that photos only give you the surface of an object - for a voxel world you also need the inside. For example, voxels to represent the inside of a wall, or underground.
In number one, I can wrangle with you forever, at first, Python is just an Enchanced and much easier version of C#, yes, it has problems with calcluating, but: Till here you CAN disagree, but in that point it'll be hard work you're just not right! It's easy, like being an idiot:) All what I have to do is copy voxlap source, add it to for example in VoxLaPy.py as a class and... I'll show you:
class VoxLaPy: <main core of the source> def DrawKV6File(self, x, y, z, lambda) blablabla==!+-23874098 <part of code from voxlap>
And so on, it's, as I say, easy, 1/2 days of work. My only problem over it is that I didn't study VoxLap clearly, so I could understand it. you are maybe truly right in 2, 3 and 4. And big thanks (point 4) cuz now I know why VoxLap showed just some pixels over the tree I tried to import:)
0xC0DE at
Dany, I'm sorry but I must agree with esuvs on alot of these points. It's not going to be easy to port voxlap to python. And changes it wil be faster then the original code are pretty damn small.Making claims that it should be possible to do such a thing within 2 days is just stupid. Especially if you admit that you don't know the voxlap code well, and (you told me) that you can hardly program yourself. I don't think you're in the right spot to make such claims :)
All the other claims/points about photorealistic voxels games are just as pointless. Although I must admit, it's a very nice idea (if you would picture such a game in your head).However, you clearly have no idea what it takes to render voxels or process them or, the huge sum of data that photorealistic voxels models will have.
I would recommer you to study the voxlap source. Just play around a little, so you can grasp the ideas behind it! I think you will get a better understanding about voxels, and what's possible, or not.
Edited by Hugo Smits at
Dany at
Hugo Smits said at
Dany, I'm sorry but I must agree with esuvs on alot of these points. It's not going to be easy to port voxlap to python. And changes it wil be faster then the original code are pretty damn small.Making claims that it should be possible to do such a thing within 2 days is just stupid. Especially if you admit that you don't know the voxlap code well, and (you told me) that you can hardly program yourself. I don't think you're in the right spot to make such claims :)
All the other claims/points about photorealistic voxels games are just as pointless. Although I must admit, it's a very nice idea (if you would picture such a game in your head).However, you clearly have no idea what it takes to render voxels or process them or, the huge sum of data that photorealistic voxels models will have.
I would recommer you to study the voxlap source. Just play around a little, so you can grasp the ideas behind it! I think you will get a better understanding about voxels, and what's possible, or not.
I don't know if I have to belive you or not, because I really didn't study it well, a book or manual 'd help me, knows anyone?
0xC0DE at
Dany said at
I don't know if I have to belive you or not, because I really didn't study it well, a book or manual 'd help me, knows anyone?
that's exactly my point. You don't have a clue. If you want to get into this kind of thing, I suggest you learn how to program well. It's my understanding (from our msn conversations) that you only made some small programs for math class. I suggest you first learn a programming language like C or C++. Then study some basic 3D. And then read up on voxels.
After that, you can probably estimate how long it will take to port voxlap. And you will probably have a good idea what it takes to render voxels. It will probably take alot of spare hours to do so, but on a positive note; it's all very interesting.
I suggest you use google for the documents. There are tons of C/C++ tutorials out there. You might even find some in your own language (spanish) which might be easier for you. If you have questions after reading tutorials and documents.You can always post a thread here, or ask me on msn.
Dany at
Hugo Smits said at
Dany said at
I don't know if I have to belive you or not, because I really didn't study it well, a book or manual 'd help me, knows anyone?
that's exactly my point. You don't have a clue. If you want to get into this kind of thing, I suggest you learn how to program well. It's my understanding (from our msn conversations) that you only made some small programs for math class. I suggest you first learn a programming language like C or C++. Then study some basic 3D. And then read up on voxels.
After that, you can probably estimate how long it will take to port voxlap. And you will probably have a good idea what it takes to render voxels. It will probably take alot of spare hours to do so, but on a positive note; it's all very interesting.
I suggest you use google for the documents. There are tons of C/C++ tutorials out there. You might even find some in your own language (spanish) which might be easier for you. If you have questions after reading tutorials and documents.You can always post a thread here, or ask me on msn.
for math class? 're you kidding me? I don't live in F************* **** ******* ******** ***** USA! Anyway, you're true, I am not very experienced, but not like you think. I made tons of things in ******* *** *** Game Maker, than I grew up a litlle and understood that it horribly, HORRIBLY sucks, so I bought The Quick Python book and started to do some litlle text-based games, and it was really fun! Than I googled PyGame and tried to learn it (and belive me, it sucks more than Vista), so I was bored (it was summer and got really nothing to do), and again, I tried to google out some things and found pyglet, and it was, is COOOOOOOOOOL, yeah, COOOL. I started to make next tons of projects in it, and NONE of them did not pass even technological tests! (really, for example I did some balls collision via mouse, it was made in a day, it just made BIG lag and I couldn't move mouse in the window, it was creepy and annyoing) It started to be extremely boring, I felt like an EMO so... I deleted all my work(but I still have some screens of the text-game that I called for some reason sphagetti-and-cheese...) passed a year, I went to another school and I was installing some free MMO shooting games I found somewhere(it was called like Death Tournaments 99' and looked really weird), and while I was waiting i was surfing the internet and BAM! It was on gmc.yoyogames.com where I found an image of the VoxLap, I clicked on it and it redirected me on ken's website, 3/4 days after it I registred on this forum. :D So, this is all I could write for my defence :P . So do you still think I'm just lama-noob from 3rd galaxy, pe**s planet? (sry for some screws here)
0xC0DE at
Dany said at
So do you still think I'm just lama-noob from 3rd galaxy, pe**s planet?
yes ;) although your story was funny, you pretty much proved my points;
1.) You don't really know how to program (yes, you tried some little things... but you couldn't even get the mouse to work correct :P) 2.) You have no experience with voxels or voxlap (other then clicking on a screenshot of voxlap)
TX at
Wow... what a lamer. Is this thread for real?
JonoF at
Gotta say it is all rather hilarious.
Dany at
JonoF said at
Gotta say it is all rather hilarious.
eh?
Maren at
That's probably his polite way of saying "you just made an arse out of yourself" ;D