Maybe you'll remember me, than again, maybe not. I e-mailed you many moons ago, and did a little voxel work for you. Particularly a rocket launcher.
I :cry: unfortunetly could not continue with my contributions due to excessive amounts of school work n' such. I've always regreted not formally
contcting you about my departure, as I've always intended on finishing what I had started. Days became weeks, weeks became months and I felt it would be rather awkward to E-mail you out of the blue to 'resign'. Well, since then I've had even more of a work load added to my studies, but I've always checked out your site for updates. I must tell you, the new screenshots are absolutely unbelievable!!!!
Since then, I've took up the rather relaxing hobby of Wolfenstein modding (yes Wolf3d!!!). I find it to be quite fun, plus the community is friendly.
I checked out your site, well...today, and saw this nifty forum. An excellent idea!
I was wondering, have you made any progress in the voxel model department since my departure? I would love to see what you guys have been up to the past year.
As I mentioned, I've been modding for around 7 months now, (although my game isn't finished yet, due to code problems) but I've been drawing tons of textures and sprites. If you need any random voxel models, like say a little tree or an ammo clip, (assuming your artists are busy with bigger things...) then I would be extremely glad to help out.
Other than that, I'd like to see some models any of you forum members have done. Post some screen shots!!
Well, nice to see your game completely rocks (as expected) :D
-Michael "ChiefRebelAngel" Derrah
p.s. If you'd like to see some of my Wolf stuff, it's at http://www.angelfire.com/comics/derrah -- Enjoy!
Awesoken at
Of course I remember you - you're the best SLAB6 artist I know! That rocket launcher you made totally rocks. Maybe you should release it ; )
the new screenshots are absolutely unbelievable!!!!
Thanks! Have you tried the demo? For those who haven't seen it, here's a link: Voxlap Cave Demo
have you made any progress in the voxel model department since my departure?
No. Tom and I have not been doing much with Voxlap lately. In 2002, we were working on a Quake clone with destructible walls. Here are some screenshots of that effort. It turned out that the addition of destructible walls really didn't add anything to the game. What we had was basically a Quake clone with very blocky graphics. Upon realizing this, we lost the motivation to continue the project.
Since then, we've been searching for totally new game ideas - something that would require the fully dynamic terrain and be a lot of fun at the same time. We have not found that killer idea yet. Usually a game team designs (or licenses) an engine around a game idea. With Voxlap, it's been the other way around - perhaps that was a bad idea : P
If you need any random voxel models, like say a little tree or an ammo clip, (assuming your artists are busy with bigger things...) then I would be extremely glad to help out.
Thanks, I appreciate the offer. You would be the first person I ask if I ever needed new voxel models. Just for the record, I am not a company. I don't have a "team" of artists at my disposal. I'm just 1 guy who happens to enjoy programming in his free time. I am fortunate to know a few other programmers (Tom / JonoF) who have been nice enough to collaborate with me on projects.
Anonymous at
Ken, why don't you release this demo? Is it so bad or unstable?
I think lot of people are waiting for a demo beside voxlap.
just curious, what is your real "professsion", if you have one?
Or do you have so many funds from your duke nukem area that you can make hobby programming to your profession? :)
Sebastian
Derrah_CRA at
Awesoken said
Of course I remember you - you're the best SLAB6 artist I know! That rocket launcher you made totally rocks. Maybe you should release it ;)
Seriously? I'm totally flattered! I honestly love voxels, they're very 'warm' looking. That's why I've been into Wolfenstein moding. I just love working with pixels that you can see, not just photoshop edited photographs. Super high-rez textures take away from the raw creativity when designing the atmosphere (plus they take days to draw). I'm definetly an 'old-schooler'. 8)
Awesoken said
Just for the record, I am not a company. I don't have a "team" of artists at my disposal.
I wasn't sure of development status. I figured you would have a team, considering the potential of this thing, plus the fact that you are a very swell guy to work under :)
Awesoken said
Thanks, I appreciate the offer. You would be the first person I ask if I ever needed new voxel models.
Once again, I'm extremely flattered and honored!!! Seriously, I've grown up a bit this past year (or two?!?), and my school work ethic has definetly improved, thus freeing up time to focus on art. I would love to resume work, so if you have any requests down the road, feel free to e-mail me (or I'll just check here I guess...). I hope you and Tom come up with a game concept. I remember you telling me that it was intended for multiplayer fps style, which I think is very cool.
8)
Ohh...OH!! I downloaded the cave test...what can I say???
IT IS ASTONISHING!! :shock:
Not to sound as if I am kissing you know what....the rocks and cliffs, the falling rubble.......I'm speechless.. :shock: :shock:
Guest (Derrah_CRA) said
Other than that, I'd like to see some models any of you forum members have done. Post some screen shots!!
I meant it! Let's see some screenshots!
(ok...a very long post....I know) Here are some Rocket Launcher screens:
Wow! Those are some impressive screenshots. Nice job man! :D
Awesoken at
In response to Sebastian:
Ken, why don't you release this demo? Is it so bad or unstable?
The demo is not bad or unstable. The game just doesn't happen to be much fun. I feel that releasing a game in this state will only cause people to lose interest in Voxlap.
what is your real "professsion", if you have one?
Or do you have so many funds from your duke nukem area that you can make hobby programming to your profession?
You guessed it : ) I work for myself.
In response to Derrah_CRA:
I would love to resume work, so if you have any requests down the road, feel free to e-mail me
I would call you if I was planning to make my own game. I was thinking about releasing a Voxlap library - so a competent game programmer could make their own game out of Voxlap. This way, someone other than Tom or I could start designing their own game while we can continue our engine research. I did a similar "library" experiment with EVALDRAW recently and it seems to have generated some additional interest without compromising my rights.
Here are some Rocket Launcher screens:
How about posting the actual KVX models? The thing that impressed me most about your models is the amount of detail you put at the voxel level - something which can only be done in a dedicated voxel editor like SLAB6.
Silhouette of a Can (alias: Joe King), you're not such a bad voxel artist either.. you should post that dinosaur of yours! : )
Derrah_CRA at
Awesoken said
I was thinking about releasing a Voxlap library - so a competent game programmer could make their own game out of Voxlap. This way, someone other than Tom or I could start designing their own game while we can continue our engine research. I did a similar "library" experiment with EVALDRAW recently and it seems to have generated some additional interest without compromising my rights.
That sounds like a very interesting idea, I would definetly be excited about that... :D
If I was going to make a single player 1st person shooter, would there be a way to enlarge the map space limit? Perhaps it would be easier to make smaller map 'areas', joined by exit switches. Maybe the inclusion of flat surfaces to resemble buildings and roads. I think I'll load up that level editor again and play around...
As for the .KVX, I'll post it asap :lol:
Awesoken at
would there be a way to enlarge the map space limit?
No. The 1024x1024x256 limit is hard-coded into the engine and cannot be easily changed.
AcetoliNe at
voxels
You should definately keep playing around with voxels. I'm sure voxlap inspired a lot of people (including me).
The thing is, to this date, NOBODY knows how you managed to get so much performance out of your engine. And without acceleration, too. Man, these polygon freaks should learn a lesson or two.
Hmm... speaking of voxels, I have created a Mug with "Love me, Love my computer" written on the side in SLAP6D. Would you like me to send it to you?
Awesoken at
Voxel models
to this date, NOBODY knows how you managed to get so much performance out of your engine.
: ) Someday, I'll write a nice tutorial with diagrams. That takes a lot of time though. I am thinking of releasing a Voxlap library relatively soon. It won't give out the secrets, but it will allow people to make their own games with it.
I have created a Mug with "Love me, Love my computer" written on the side in SLAP6D. Would you like me to send it to you?
If you send a model to my private E-mail account, I would feel obligated to write something in return - whether the model is good or not. This takes time. For everyone's benefit, I would rather have you post a URL to this forum so anyone can take a look at it - and download it at their convenience.
Sebastian at
ken,
a small description of the basic algorithm would be great, especially the thing with the reverse mapping of voxels.
Anyway, I got my OPenGL Renderer running using the slicing, it works quite good! But the problem is that far away when the slices diverge some voxels aren't hit and are therefore invisible.
do you only render the voxels which you hit or do you also search for voxels near pixels which are empty?
Sebastian
p.s. one more question: do you have any division operation in the code for the slicing? I got the complete grid traversal and slicing running with integer arithmetic. But for the calculation whether voxels are visible or not I need to do one integer div and 3 integer muls. Are you approximating things or do you calculate that?
Lee at
He use a sort of mipmaping for far away pixels
Anonymous at
no he doesnt, altough he has support for it!
Awesoken at
Reverse mapping is a term from texture-mapped polygon rendering. The idea is: you step along pixels of the screen and calculate which texel to read from. The tricky part of reverse mapping is figuring out which pixels of the screen lie inside the polygon (also known as rasterization).
The simpler and more naive way to do texture mapping is called forward mapping. In this method, you step along texels of the texture and calculate which pixel of the screen to write. Forward mapping suffers from gaps (if the polygon is close) and overdraw (if the polygon is far).
... far away when the slices diverge some voxels aren't hit and are therefore invisible.
I've seen these words before and my attempts at coming up with an answer have failed. A screenshot of your problem would be helpful.
do you have any division operation in the code for the slicing?
You should not be concerned over divisions that only happen 500-1000 times per frame.
whether voxels are visible or not I need to do one integer div and 3 integer muls.
You can eliminate divides in a comparision by multiplying both sides. For example:
if (a/b < c)
is the same as:
if (a < b*c) //assuming b is not negative
There are also tricks to change the multiplies into additions, but they usually require many new variables. It might be faster just to do the multiply.
AcetoliNe at
my mug
Well, here's the mug I was talking about:
http://www.bma2.tripod.com/Mug.kvx
I guess it needs a little trimming up, but I like it anyways...
(by the way, don't check out the main site, it's still under construction ok?! :oops: )
yuriks at
Voxel models
well, the demo seems to be quite impressive and i would love to have that demo...:)
i think im the only one person that destroyed the entire 100% complete terrain of those cave voxel demos :))
CheapAlert at
Awesoken said
In response to Sebastian:
Ken, why don't you release this demo? Is it so bad or unstable?
The demo is not bad or unstable. The game just doesn't happen to be much fun. I feel that releasing a game in this state will only cause people to lose interest in Voxlap.
Aww, there is no other multiplayer fps game with destructable and producable terrain like this :( (Well, Froogz doesn't count imo, it ain't voxel)
I wouldn't say it was a Quake clone though, it looked totally unique and promisingly fun!
Frobozz at
CheapAlert might have a point. I found that I stopped paying attention to this site when nobody started doing anything with Voxlib. At least if you released the demo we'd have something to do while we idle away. :D
CheapAlert at
Yeah, it could be the next generation 3D Liero :D (A really popular 2D multiplayer action game involving alot of digging, covering, blasting, with lots of user made clones following it like LieroXtreme and Captain Pork's world of pain or so)
Ghostpilot at
...
I don't feel like starting a new thread, so I'm reusing/hijacking this one, as it seems to cover the general area around the subject of my question.
Hi, by the way. I'm new here, but I have been an unregistered lurker for some time now.
Now, I have stopped lurking and come out of hiding.
So, the question(s)...
What is the max resolution slab6 can produce a voxel model in?
I tried to "quick read" the docs but didn't find any clues to what it might be.
I'm sure I have seen it written somewhere, but couldn't remember where.
By the way, have someone made a frontend to slab6?
It would be nice to have a little more userfriendly interface.
My DOSdays are over and my short term memory don't like to rememeber
all those keys in slab6.
Awesoken at
Voxel models
I guess you missed the first line of the first paragraph of my documentation. Here's a quote:
SLAB6 is a highly optimized, pure software-based renderer and editor of small voxel objects (ranging from 1*1*1 to 256*256*255).
Yes, the height dimension is limited to 255, not 256.
my short term memory don't like to rememeber all those keys in slab6.
I might add menus, buttons, and dialog boxes someday, but it's not a high priority for me right now.
Ghostpilot at
Awesoken said
I guess you missed the first line of the first paragraph of my documentation.
Ahh... That's what happen if you try to fast read a huge document, looking for a specific thing...
I didn't look at the most obvious place in it.
Awesoken also said
I might add menus, buttons, and dialog boxes someday, but it's not a high priority for me right now.
I see. Making voxelmodels is very fun. But as a DOS nerd that has "moved on" so to speak, it's hard to handle slab6.
Thanks for the ultrafast reply, by the way.
You must have a symbiotic relationship with this forum or something.
/Tony
Anonymous at
CheapAlert said
Yeah, it could be the next generation 3D Liero :D (A really popular 2D multiplayer action game involving alot of digging, covering, blasting, with lots of user made clones following it like LieroXtreme and Captain Pork's world of pain or so)